What Does It Look Like to Build a Strong Team?

Welcome to Gone Phishing, a show diving into cybersecurity threats that surround our highly connected lives. Every human is different. Every person has unique vulnerabilities that expose them to potentially successful social engineering. On this show, we'll discuss human vulnerability and how it relates to unique individuals.

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Connor Swalm: Hey, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Gone Phishing. I'm your host, Connor, CEO at Phin, and I am joined once again by Mary Signorelli, a director of partner experience.

Mary Signorelli: Perfect, thank you.

Connor Swalm: Today we're going to talk about what it looks like to build a strong team. In our last episode, we chatted about your experience in the channel and as a teacher. My life is filled with teachers at all levels—my wife, my mom, my brother, my dad, grandma, grandpa, uncles, aunts, friends. Not me, though. I don't have the patience.

Mary Signorelli: Not officially.

Connor Swalm: Not officially. Maybe I do teach people some things, but I would never call myself a teacher. I don't have patience for that. So you've been a part of many teams. Not only are you on one now, but teaching teams are a thing, as I've learned. What does it look like for you to build a strong team?

Mary Signorelli: I think you've got to look at culture for sure. When you hire, when you interview, everything should be directed at common goals, common values, and making sure you've got a cultural fit. You can hire the smartest person, but if they can't communicate with the team or don't want to be a team player, it doesn't work. The old saying is a bad apple spoils the bunch, and I've seen it happen. You have to be conscious of your team's needs and build a team that supports each other. It's fundamental to the success of the organization.

Connor Swalm: You can set as many goals as you want as an organization, but there are deeper drivers—what kind of person do you want to be? What kind of group do we want to be? How do we want people to perceive us? These unite you far more than just selling software. What are some of the pieces of culture that people should look to hire for?

Mary Signorelli: In teams I've built, like tech support and customer success, you need people willing to put others before themselves. Doing the right thing because it's the right thing to do is huge. You can have a quick sale and an unhappy customer, or you can build a relationship. You can't overpromise and underdeliver. It's better to underpromise and overdeliver. Surround yourself with people who are smarter in areas where you're not. In interviews, ask about family, what they like to do outside of work—the whole well-rounded picture is important.

Connor Swalm: I like to ask, "When's the last time you challenged somebody's beliefs and when's the last time you had your beliefs challenged?" If you're not in scenarios where you're willing to put yourself out there or give others the opportunity for growth, that's a problem. If everyone's just tiptoeing around each other, that leads to unmet expectations.

Mary Signorelli: As a teacher, I've had eight student teachers. I told them we'd have professional conversations—not meant to hurt feelings, but to help you grow. Growth is painful. You don't go to the gym and never feel your muscles burn. Same with professional growth—if you're not challenged, you're not learning.

Connor Swalm: A lot of people say they hire for values and culture, but you see evidence that businesses miss something. What do you think people miss most often that prevents them from building a strong team?

Mary Signorelli: Leaders who don't build diverse teams miss out on many opportunities because your customers are diverse. At Phin, when we came together as a team in Tampa, I've never seen more diverse people get along so well. The one word that came to mind was kindness. Open communication and treating people the way you want to be treated is so important. People who lose sight of that lose out on opportunities.

Connor Swalm: If it's not your number one focus, it'll fall by the wayside. Eventually, someone won't be quite aligned. It's incredibly hard to make sure everyone stays focused on values and kindness.

Mary Signorelli: The more you think about it, the more you realize those things are so simple. Why don't more people get it?

Connor Swalm: It's like losing weight—simple in theory, hard in practice. You have to show up every day and be committed. You can misstep, but not all the time.

Mary Signorelli: True. We love cooking way too much.

Connor Swalm: I love eating way too much. Thank God someone loves cooking. I'm more of a pragmatist—I'll cook a chicken thigh, but not slow roast prime rib for hours. I don't have patience for that. Where do people mess up most frequently? What steps should a company take if they're building or rebuilding a team?

Mary Signorelli: Having a coach is huge. I had a coach, Adam Petticourt, who was a sounding board outside the company. Having consultants, coaches, peer groups is important. Look at your team—do they all look or think the same? You need diverse perspectives. Also, look at your interview process—are you figuring out as much as you can about the person before bringing them in?

Connor Swalm: I always hated interview processes. Everyone knows how to interview well. You can look up tips online and become a star candidate. But that's not authentic. So I try to ask questions nobody could have prepared for, like "When's the last time you challenged someone's beliefs?" If you can't remember a time, you're probably not going to do that here. If you can't remember a time someone challenged your beliefs, you're probably not used to it and won't fare well when challenged.

Mary Signorelli: When hiring a tier one tech, I ask where they want to go in five years. If they say they just want to be a tier one tech, they're not the right person. I want people to keep growing, and if an opportunity doesn't open up here, I'd recommend they go somewhere else if it's best for them.

Connor Swalm: What's a bias that leads to poor hiring decisions?

Mary Signorelli: I think a big bias is hiring people like yourself—same background, thoughts, education. That's a fatal mistake.

Connor Swalm: Right. If you only have left arms, you can't assemble a full body. Decisions are more complex, but that's how I see it. I suck at so many things. We wouldn't hire anyone remotely like us because we're not qualified to do any of this.

Mary Signorelli: In tech, there used to be a bias toward college degrees. Now, people can learn what they want online. The older you are, the more reverence you hold for a college degree, but it's different now.

Connor Swalm: It meant more to have a college degree 30 years ago. Now, with so many educational resources, you can learn more on YouTube in three months than most college graduates. It's about motivation and excitement to learn.

Mary Signorelli: There's so much access to information now that wasn't there when I was growing up.

Connor Swalm: To know that I've been embraced by young people and that I contribute—my skill set is different from yours and others on the team, and that's what makes a good, functioning team.

Connor Swalm: If you had one piece of advice for someone hiring their first person, what would it be?

Mary Signorelli: Listen to what they have to say.

Connor Swalm: Listen to what they have to say.

Mary Signorelli: We have two ears and one mouth for a reason. Listen twice as much as you talk.

Connor Swalm: If you're not very smart but you don't talk, nobody knows that. My advice: always hire for the person, not their skill set. You can teach a motivated person anything, but you can't teach a qualified person who doesn't want to do it.

Mary Signorelli: I always told my students to take communication classes. A business can't teach you to communicate or public speak, but they can teach you the business.

Connor Swalm: I read an article about Freshworks, a multi-billion dollar company. Their CEO said to focus on people with a learning mindset and map their talent to the job. Don't hire for qualifications—hire for mindset. You can teach anyone anything if they want to learn.

Mary Signorelli: Great point.

Connor Swalm: Thanks for joining us, Mary. It was a pleasure having you back on.

Mary Signorelli: Thank you. It was fun.

Connor Swalm: Once again, I'm Connor, CEO at Phin, host of the Gone Phishing podcast. Hope you have a great day and I'll see you next time.